Received: by lemuria.sai.com (/\==/\ Smail3.1.21.1 #21.11) id ; Sun, 23 May 93 06:52 EDT Received: from uicvm.uic.edu by mv.MV.COM (5.67/1.35) id AA18791; Sun, 23 May 93 06:19:03 -0400 Message-Id: <9305231019.AA18791@mv.MV.COM> Received: from NIU.BITNET by UICVM.UIC.EDU (IBM VM SMTP V2R1) with BSMTP id 9222; Sun, 23 May 93 05:18:49 CDT Date: Sun, 23 May 93 02:25 CDT To: TK0JUT1@NIU.BITNET From: Cu-Digest (tk0jut2@mvs.cso.niu.edu) Subject: Cu Digest, #5.38 Computer underground Digest Sun May 22 1993 Volume 5 : Issue 38 ISSN 1004-042X Editors: Jim Thomas and Gordon Meyer (TK0JUT2@NIU.BITNET) Archivist: Brendan Kehoe Shadow-Archivists: Dan Carosone / Paul Southworth Ralph Sims / Jyrki Kuoppala Ian Dickinson Copy Editor: Etaoin Shrdlu, Senrio CONTENTS, #5.38 (May 22 1993) File 1--Here We Go Again - 2600 Magazine Threatened With Lawsuit File 2--Obtaining Whitehouse E-Publications File 3--UK Computer Misuse case File 4--CPSR Position Openings File 5--A little feedback on Bridges of Understanding Cu-Digest is a weekly electronic journal/newsletter. Subscriptions are available at no cost electronically from tk0jut2@mvs.cso.niu.edu. The editors may be contacted by voice (815-753-6430), fax (815-753-6302) or U.S. mail at: Jim Thomas, Department of Sociology, NIU, DeKalb, IL 60115. Issues of CuD can also be found in the Usenet comp.society.cu-digest news group; on CompuServe in DL0 and DL4 of the IBMBBS SIG, DL1 of LAWSIG, and DL0 and DL12 of TELECOM; on GEnie in the PF*NPC RT libraries and in the VIRUS/SECURITY library; from America Online in the PC Telecom forum under "computing newsletters;" On Delphi in the General Discussion database of the Internet SIG; on the PC-EXEC BBS at (414) 789-4210; and on: Rune Stone BBS (IIRG WHQ) 203-832-8441 NUP:Conspiracy CuD is also available via Fidonet File Request from 1:11/70; unlisted nodes and points welcome. EUROPE: from the ComNet in Luxembourg BBS (++352) 466893; ANONYMOUS FTP SITES: UNITED STATES: ftp.eff.org (192.88.144.4) in /pub/cud uglymouse.css.itd.umich.edu (141.211.182.53) in /pub/CuD/cud halcyon.com( 202.135.191.2) in /pub/mirror/cud AUSTRALIA: ftp.ee.mu.oz.au (128.250.77.2) in /pub/text/CuD. EUROPE: nic.funet.fi in pub/doc/cud. (Finland) ftp.warwick.ac.uk in pub/cud (United Kingdom) Back issues also may be obtained through mailserver at: server@blackwlf.mese.com COMPUTER UNDERGROUND DIGEST is an open forum dedicated to sharing information among computerists and to the presentation and debate of diverse views. CuD material may be reprinted for non-profit as long as the source is cited. Authors hold a presumptive copyright, and they should be contacted for reprint permission. It is assumed that non-personal mail to the moderators may be reprinted unless otherwise specified. Readers are encouraged to submit reasoned articles relating to computer culture and communication. Articles are preferred to short responses. Please avoid quoting previous posts unless absolutely necessary. DISCLAIMER: The views represented herein do not necessarily represent the views of the moderators. Digest contributors assume all responsibility for ensuring that articles submitted do not violate copyright protections. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 20 May 1993 21:55:32 EDT From: CuD Moderators Subject: Here We Go Again - 2600 Magazine Threatened With Lawsuit Emmanuel Goldstein, editor of 2600, reports that the magazine is again being threatened with litigation by a large teleco, this time AT&T. Last year, BellCore threatened legal action (CuD #4.33). Emmanuel recently posted the following: +++ begin Emmanuel's message It looks like 2600 is being threatened with yet ANOTHER lawsuit. This time it's AT&T we've apparently annoyed. The following letter was just received by us: AT&T 131 Morristown Road Basking Ridge, NJ 07920-1650 908 204-8413 FAX 908 204-8537 R.A. Ryan Trademark and Copyright Attorney April 13, 1993 Eric Corley P.O. Box 99 Middle Island New York 11953-0099 Dear Mr. Corley: I have been informed that the Winter 1992-93 edition of your publication 2600 Magazine includes material copied from AT&T's Eastern Area Directory. The material copied by you is proprietary to AT&T and subject to the protection of state and federal law including The Copyright Law of the United States. AT&T will take immediate action to protect its proprietary information and its copyrighted property in the event you persist with its publication. Very truly yours, R.A. Ryan Recycled Paper (end letter and Emmanuel's message) The 2600 article in question is simply 2 3/4 pages (pp 36-38) of addresses of AT&T offices. The article's is: "IS AT&T HIDING NEAR YOU?" It's introduced with a short blurb: "This is a list of every AT&T office (including switching stations) in eight states. The leftmost column is the "work location code" which is what the office is known as to AT&T bureaucrats." CONNECTICUT CT4630, 92 CHESTNUT ST, BRANDFORD, 06405 And so forth for nearly 3 pages. It seems about as proprietary as telephone listings, but we're probably mistaken. We're certain that AT&T wouldn't stoop to using it's power to harass others for frivolous reasons. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1993 22:15:15 EST From: Dave Banisar Subject: Obtaining Whitehouse E-Publications WHITE HOUSE ELECTRONIC PUBLICATIONS AND PUBLIC ACCESS EMAIL FREQUENTLY ASKED QUESTIONS Updated April 7, 1993 Table Of Contents I. Signing up for Daily Electronic Publications. A. Widely Available Sources. B. Notes on Widely Available Sources. C. Direct Email Distribution II. Searching and Retrieving White House documents. - WAIS - GOPHER - FedWorld BBS III. Sending email to the White House. - CompuServe - America OnLine - MCI - Fidonet - Internet I. HOW DO I SIGN UP FOR ELECTRONIC PUBLICATIONS BY THE WHITE HOUSE? The White House Communications office is distributing press releases over an experimental system developed during the campaign at the MIT Artificial Intelligence Laboratory. You can obtain copies of all the press releases from a wide variety of on-line services or discussion groups devoted to either national politics in general or President Clinton in particular. These are listed in sections I and II. Section Ic explains how you can sign up to receive press releases directly from the experimental MIT system by using an automated email server. The present system was not designed to handle high levels of message traffic. A more powerful system will become available in due course, and in the meantime, it would be appreciated if you used this service sparingly. One appropriate current use is secondary redistribution and archiving. If you use it, you will be carried forward when the more powerful system that replaces it. A. WIDELY AVAILABLE SOURCES 1. On USENET/NETNEWS, electronic publications are found on a variety of groups: Direct Distribution alt.politics.clinton alt.politics.org.misc alt.politics.reform alt.politics.usa.misc alt.news-media alt.activism talk.politics.misc Indirect Distribution misc.activism.progressive cmu.soc.politics assocs.clinton-gore-92 2. On CompuServe: GO WHITEHOUSE 3. On America Online: keyword WHITEHOUSE or THE WHITEHOUSE or CLINTON 4. On The WELL: type whitehouse 5. On MCI: type VIEW WHITE HOUSE 6. On Fidonet: See Echomail WHITEHOUSE 7. On Peacenet or Econet: See pol.govinfo.usa. B. NOTES ON WIDELY AVAILABLE SOURCES 2. CompuServe's White House Forum (GO WHITEHOUSE) is devoted to discussion of the Clinton administration's policies and activities. The forum's library consists of news releases and twice daily media briefings from the White House Office of Media Affairs. CompuServe members can exchange information and opinions with each other in the 17 sections in the forum's message area. The message board spans a broad range of topics, including international and United Nations activities, defense, health care, the economy and the deficit, housing and urban development, the environment, and education and national service. 3. On America Online the posts are sent to the White House Forum, located in the News & Finance department of the service and accessible via keywords "white house" and "clinton." The White House Forum on America Online contains the press releases from the White House, divided into the categories "Press Briefings," "Meetings & Speeches," "Foreign Policy," "The Economy," "Technology," "Health Care," and "Appointments." The area features a message board so you can discuss the releases with other AOL members, and a searchable database for easy retrieval of releases in the topic that interests you. 4. MCI Mail users can access daily information on the administration's programs provided by the White House through MCI Mail bulletin boards. The available boards are: WHITE HOUSE ECONOMIC, WHITE HOUSE FOREIGN, WHITE HOUSE SOCIAL, WHITE HOUSE SPEECHES and WHITE HOUSE NEWS. A listing of these boards can also be obtained by simply typing VIEW WHITE HOUSE at the COMMAND prompt. C. DIRECT EMAIL DISTRIBUTION If you don't have access to the these accounts or if you would prefer to receive the releases via email, then the next section details how to sign up for this service. The server is not set up to answer email letters, comments or requests for specific information. To reach this MIT server, send email: To: Clinton-Info@Campaign92.Org Subject--Help The server works by reading the subject line of the incoming message and taking whatever action that line calls for. If you want to sign up to automatically receive press releases, then your subject line would begin with the word RECEIVE. You can then specify what kind of information you are interested in receiving. The categories of information are: ECONOMIC POLICY Get releases related to the economy such as budget news, technology policy review, etc. FOREIGN POLICY Get releases related to foreign policy such as statements on Bosnian airdrop, Haitian refugee status, etc. SOCIAL POLICY Get releases related to social issues like National Service (Student Loan) program, abortion, welfare reform, etc. SPEECHES All speeches made by the President and important speeches made by other Administration officials. NEWS Transcripts of press conferences released by the White House Communications office, as well as the President's remarks in photo ops and other Q&A sessions. ALL All of the above So, if you wanted to sign up to get releases related to the economy your email message would look like this: To: Clinton-Info@Campaign92.Org Subject--RECEIVE ECONOMY When you send a signup message to the clinton-info server, it sends you back a status message letting you know what distribution streams you are signed up for. If you ever want to check on what groups you are signed up for send the following message: To: Clinton-Info@Campaign92.Org Subject--STATUS You can stop receiving email releases by sending a REMOVE message to the clinton-info server. The word REMOVE would be followed by whatever distribution stream you wanted to drop. If you wanted to stop receiving message about the ECONOMY then your mail would look like this: To: Clinton-Info@Campaign92.Org Subject--REMOVE ECONOMY You could substitute SOCIAL, FOREIGN, SPEECHES, NEWS or ALL for ECONOMY in the above message and you would be dropped from that distribution list. If you send the subject line REMOVE ALL, then you will be taken off the email distribution system all together and will not receive further releases of any kind. You can also ask for help from the automated server. Send an email query as follows: To: Clinton-Info@Campaign92.Org Subject--HELP The server will respond by sending you a detailed form that will guide you through the process of signing up for the various distribution streams. As you will quickly discover, there is a automatic form processing interface that parallel the quick and easy subject line commands discussed here. More detailed help is available by sending an email query as follows: To: Clinton-Info@Campaign92.Org Subject--Please Help! Finally, if you want to search and retrieve documents, but you do not have access to the retrieval methods discussed in section II, you can do this via email through the MIT server. You can obtain the WAIS query form by sending an email query as follows: To: Clinton-Info@Campaign92.Org Subject--WAIS Once you have identified the documents that you want, be careful not to request them all at once, because you may be sent a message containing all the documents and this message may be too big for some mail delivery systems between the email server and you. II. HOW DO I RETRIEVE WHITE HOUSE PUBLICATIONS FROM INTERNET ARCHIVES? Various sites are archiving the press releases distributed . What follows is an incomplete list of some of the sites containing the documents that have been released to date. This FAQ will be updated to reflect new sites as they become known. SITE DIRECTORY 1. SUNSITE.UNC.EDU /HOME3/WAIS/WHITE-HOUSE-PAPERS 2. FTP.CCO.CALTECH.EDU /PUB/BJMCCALL 3. FTP MARISTB.MARIST.EDU 4. CPSR.ORG /CPSR/CLINTON 5. FedWorld BBS 703-321-8020 8-N-1 Notes: The following are notes on how to log in and get information from the above sites. 1. Office FOR Information Technology at University of North Carolina Maintains the full collection of White House electronic release available for search with WAIS and also accessible via Gopher. 1.a WAIS (:source :version 3 :database-name "/home3/wais/White-House-Papers" :ip- address "152.2.22.81" :ip-name "sunsite.unc.edu" :tcp-port 210 :cost 0.00 :cost-unit :free :maintainer "pjones@sunsite.unc.edu" :description "Server created with WAIS release 8 b5 on Feb 27 15:16:16 1993 by pjones@sunsite.unc.edu These are the White House Press Briefings and other postings dealing with William Jefferson Clinton and Albert Gore as well as members of the President's Cabinet and the first lady Hillary Rodham Clinton, Chelsea, Socks and others in Washington DC. Dee Dee Meyers and George Stephanopoulos. Other good words: United States of America, Bill Al Tipper Democrats USA US These files are also available via anonymous ftp from sunsite.unc.edu The files of type filename used in the index were: /home3/ftp/pub/academic/political-science/whitehouse- papers/1993 ") Folks without WAIS clients or gophers that act as WAIS clients may telnet to sunsite.unc.edu and login as swais to access this information via WAIS. 1.b GOPHER is a distributed menuing system for information access on the Internet developed at the University of Minnesota. gophers are client-server implementations and various gopher clients are available for nearly any computing platform. You may now use gopher clients to assess the White House Papers and other political information on SunSITE.unc.edu's new gopher server. You may also add links from your local gopher server to SunSITE for access to the White House Papers. For gopher server keepers and adventurous clients to access SunSITE you need only know that we use the standard gopher port 70 and that our internet address is SunSITE.unc.edu (152.2.22.81). Point there and you'll see the references to the Politics areas. For folks without gopher clients but with access to telnet: telnet sunsite.unc.edu login: gopher The rest is very straight forward. Browsing options end with a directory mark (/), searching options end with an question mark (?). There's plenty of on-line help available. 2. No special instructions. 3. The CLINTON@MARIST log files which contain all the official administration releases distributed through the MIT servers are available via anonymous FTP. These logs contain in addition to the official releases, the posts that comprise the ongoing discussion conducted by the list subscribers. To obtain the logs: FTP MARISTB.MARIST.EDU - the logs are in the CLINTON directory and are named CLINTON LOG9208 thru CLINTON LOGyymm where yymm stands for the current year and month. Problems should be directed to my attention: URLS@MARISTC.BITNET or URLS@VM.MARIST.EDU. Posted by Lee Sakkas - owner, CLINTON@MARIST 4. Computer Professionals for Social Responsibility is providing all Clinton documents on technology and privacy at the CPSR Internet Library, available via FTP/WAIS/Gopher at cpsr.org /cpsr/clinton (and in other folders as relevant). For email access, send a message with the word "help" at the 1st line of text to listserv@cpsr.org. 5. The FedWorld Computer System, operated by the National Technical Information Service, archives White House papers in a traditional BBS type file library. Connect to FedWorld by calling (703) 321- 8020. No parity, eight data bits and one stop bit (N-8-1). FedWorld accommodates baud speeds of up to 9,600. White House papers are located in the W-House library of files. To access this library from the main FedWorld menu, enter . Files are named with the first four digits being the release month and day (e.g. 0323XXX.txt). Some standard abbreviations after the date include: rem - Remarks by the President pc - Press Conference transcript pr - Press Release AM - AM Press Briefing PM - PM Press Briefing sch - The President's public schedule spch- Text of major speeches. These files are saved in ASCII format. Files can be viewed online by requesting to download a file and then selecting (L)ist as the download protocol. This will display the file a screen at a time. White House papers are kept in the above format for up to two months. Papers more than two months old are compressed using Pkzip into a single file that contains all of the files for that month (e.g. 0193.zip contains all papers released during January 1993). In addition to White Documents, FedWorld also provides a gateway to more than 100 government funded BBSs and computer systems. III. HOW DO I SEND EMAIL TO THE WHITE HOUSE? The White House email system is under construction. This is a new project and suffers from all of the problems common to a startup operation. The Communications office is currently working on defining what this system will do, as well as trying to come up with equipment and staffing to make sure that it works. Email messages are currently being printed out and responses are being sent out via US Mail. Nobody wants this new venture to work more than the staff that has devoted so many hours to getting it up and running. But much time and effort will be required before the system is truly interactive. In the mean time, they will need a little patience from the electronic community. If you send a message to the White House, please include a US Post office address for replies. You can send email to the following accounts: CompuServe: 75300,3115 GO: WHITE HOUSE finds White House forum America OnLine: clinton pz KEYWORD: WHITEHOUSE finds White House area MCI TO: WHITE HOUSE VIEW WHITE HOUSE views bulletin boards Fidonet TO: WHITEHOUSE@1:2613/333 Echomail: WHITEHOUSE views echomail conference Internet: Clinton-HQ@Campaign92.Org 75300.3115@CompuServe.Com clintonpz@AOL.Com Please send corrections, deletion and additions to this FAQ to: Updates@Clinton92.Org ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 22 May 93 20:34:33 GMT From: david@SWARB.DEMON.CO.UK(David Swarbrick) Subject: UK Computer Misuse case ============================================================== BBS--Just Mooting Legal BBS Date--22-05-93 (19:49) Number--5 From--DAVID SWARBRICK Refer#--NONE To--ALL Recvd--NO Subj--CMA convictions Conf--(5) Comp Misus +---------------------------------------------------------------- The two co-accused of Paul Bedworth Neil Woods and Karl Strickland, are the first to be imprisoned in the UK for offences associated with the Computer Misuse Act 1990. At Southwark Crown Court on Friday 21 May 1993, both defendants were given six month sentences. They pleaded guilty to an offence of conspiring to commit offences under the Computer Misuse Act 1990, and of offences under the Telecommunications Act of 1984. The actual offences were causing criminal damage (Woods), conspiracy to obtain telegraphic services dishonestly, and engaging in the unauthorised publication of computer information (I confess the last one is a new one on me - perhaps it is under the Data Protection Act?). Woods admitted causing 15,000.00p damage to one computer system, and otherwise it is clear that the three gained access to some 'serious' computer systems. They also ran up very large bills for some organisations such as the Financial Times. The judge accepted that the accused had neither intended to cause harm, nor had they profited in any dishonest way. He said 'I have to mark your conduct with prison sentences both to penalise you for what you have done and for the losses caused, and to deter others who might be similarly tempted.' 'If your passion had been cars rather than computers we would have called your conduct delinquent, and I don't shrink from the analogy of describing what you were doing as intellectual joyriding ... There may be people out there who consider hacking to be harmless, but hacking is not harmless. Computers now form a central role in our lives, containing personal details, financial details, confidential matters of companies and government departments and many business organisations. Some, providing emergency services, depend on their computers to deliver their services. It is essential that the integrity of those systems should be protected, and hacking puts that integrity into jeopardy' He said he wanted to give a clear signal that hacking would not be tolerated. DS Barry Donovan formerly of the computer crimes squad said that hacking as an activity had much decreased since the arrests. The co-accused, Paul Bedworth was found not guilty a few weeks ago after a three week trial. That trial ended in some confusion for the law. Paul Bedworth had admitted all the acts he was accused of, but claimed (and had medical evidence to suppor him) that he was addicted to hacking and therefore not capable of committing the crime. The judge had in Paul's case, quite properly, told the jury that even if established, the defence claim was not capable of being a defence under English law, and that in effect therefore the jury could only convict him. The jury rejected this and acquitted him. In the UK, no one is allowed to enquire as to the inner workings of the jury room, but I offer my own speculation. His defence was both insufficient in law, and inherently implausible (addicted to your keyboard? No way) Another possible explanation (gathered from the woolly realms of speculation - and worth no more) is that the prosecution was seen to have been bullying Paul, and the jury refused to do the bully's work for them. In any event, anyone reading this who hopes to rely upon his defence, is advised that a life of innocent virtue is more to be recommended. (Source in part Stephen Ward, Independent 22 May 1993) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 May 1993 17:28:50 PDT From: Nikki Draper Subject: CPSR Position Openings The following jobs are available in the CPSR National Office in Palo Alto, California. Please feel free to pass these listings along to any interested parties. Nikki Draper Assistant to the Director ********************************************************************* COMPUTER PROFESSIONALS FOR SOCIAL RESPONSIBILITY MANAGING DIRECTOR ********************************************************************* The CPSR National Managing Director is responsible for the top-level administration and organizational development of Computer Professionals for Social Responsibility Inc., a non-profit public-interest organization of computer scientists and other professionals concerned about the impact of computer technology on society. The job is the highest level administrative position within the organization and requires extensive autonomous decision- making and implementation, along general guidelines of activity established by the Board of Directors. The key areas of responsibility are the following: % Overall coordination of the national organization, including management of relations among the national office staff, program office, the Board of Directors, and the chapters. % Oversight for financial management, including bookkeeping, approval of expenses, interaction with accounting and payroll services, and, in conjunction with the Finance Committee & Board Treasurer, preparation of an annual budget and financial status reports. % Provide assistance to the Board in its fundraising efforts. % Oversee production of the Annual Report. % Close work with the Board of Directors and its committees in the development and execution of long-range plans for organizational development. % In conjunction with the Communications Director, supervise the planning and staging of the Annual Meeting. % Responsibility for hiring, supervision, and evaluation of national office staff. Part-time, 20-25 hours per week $20,000-23,000 plus benefits. One year appointment. Participation in meetings demands flexibility in scheduling. Occasional travel to national board meetings.Women and people of color are encouraged to apply. Send resume plus cover letter by June 8 to CPSR, PO Box 717, Palo Alto, CA 94301, (415) 322-3778 or CPSR@csli.stanford.edu ********************************************************************* COMPUTER PROFESSIONALS FOR SOCIAL RESPONSIBILITY Database/Office Manager ********************************************************************* The CPSR Database/Office Manger is responsible for the the maintenance and development of CPSR databases as well as the day to day administrative operations of Computer Professionals for Social Responsibility Inc., a non-profit public-interest organization of computer scientists and other professionals concerned about the impact of computer technology on society. The job is a critical position within the organization. The key areas of responsibility are the following: includes accurate data entry, responding to membership queries regarding the status of their membership, producing reports from the databases as needed % Execute organizational mailings of membership materials, including membership renewal letters, new members development packages, brochures, event announcements, direct mail fundraising appeals, and the quarterly newsletter. % Handle information requests and orders for publications % Collect and process the mail % Deposit checks % Keep inventory of office supplies and order material as needed % Work with Director of Communication to keep inventory of educational material and reorder as needed % Assist with board meetings % Manage institutional memory, including file maintenance % Other tasks as needed Qualifications: Experience with computers - preferably Macs, able to prioritize, capable of working with minimal supervision, work effectively as part of a team, self motivated, detail oriented, experience in dealing with databases and issues surrounding database management. Part-time, 25 hours per week, $13,000 - $15,000, plus benefits. Women and people of color are encouraged to apply. Send resume plus cover letter by June 8 to CPSR, PO Box 717, Palo Alto, CA 94301, (415) 322-3778. CPSR@csli.stanford.edu ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 May 93 09:43:41 CDT From: larry@DUCKTALES.MED.GE.COM(Larry Landwehr) Subject: A little feedback on Bridges of Understanding In CuD 5.36, the CuD moderators wrote in re: "Building Bridges of Understanding:" > The obvious question, of course, is: Why should law enforcement > personnel bother discussing these issues with an audience that > includes "kids," law students, attorneys, professors, computer > specialists, and other LE agents? To us, the answer is simple: If the > goal is to minimize computer abuse rather than to simply "prosecute," > then open dialogue is a cost-effective and efficient way of > educational outreach. It's in everybody's interests for law > enforcement personnel to encourage and participate in these dialogues. > Kim Clancy moderates the round-table forum with a gentle, but incisive > hand. She combines her experiences as a security specialist with her > belief in the value of dialogue and information-sharing as an > educational tool as a means of building bridges and promoting > understanding. We share her view that increased understanding is a > significant means of decreasing unacceptable accesses. "educational outreach"? "dialogue and information-sharing"? Come on. You have _got_ to be kidding. Or else extremely naive. Are you seriously suggesting that someone in management (in a police bureaucracy) would seriously back such a nebulous concept? That they would put their professional reputations and jobs on the line for so something so intangible that you can't even measure it? Get real! Since at least the time of Robert Peal and his "bobbies" in London, and probably long before that, law enforcement personnel have used informants to manage crime. Stool pigeons, snitches, narks, whatever you want to call them, are the most cost effective way of controlling crime. Sometimes you get a little spinoff like actually helping someone get their life straightened out so they quit their criminal activities, but this is pure icing. The reason why law enforcement personnel associate with criminals is to make more arrests. That's it - pure and simple. Cops are pragmatic. Now that many people in law enforcement are college educated, we start to see police organizations with "public relations departments". My view is that this is an experiment in social engineering, done for the benefit of the liberal members of law enforcement (which are a minority) and for the benefit of the media (which is very liberal). The conservative members of law enforcement go along with these programs because they originate in upper management and because conservatives are pragmatic and cynical enough to subvert these programs and use them as a cover to spread their nets for more informants. Anyone who engages in illegal activity had better understand the psychology of law enforcement personnel or they will shortly be doing time in a calaboose. A marriage between liberalism and law enforcement is like trying to mate a donkey with a horse. It can be done, but the result is almost certainly going to be as sterile as a mule. Elegant social theories can be a productive seedbed for new ideas, but pragmatism does the weeding. Those readers of CuD who cannot distinguish the map from the territory will be in for a rude awakening if they engage in illegal activities. CuD should at least warn them of this. ------------------------------ End of Computer Underground Digest #5.38 ************************************